Why founders are ‘generally indifferent’ to hiring

If you think you’re good at hiring people, you’re probably wrong.

In this we have unusual insight. Co-author Richard Hagberg is a psychologist and executive management coach who has worked with thousands of clients, looked inside hundreds of businesses, and collected 40 years of data. Their experience has shown that recruiting is one of those subjects, like marketing or design, that many founders are confident they understand and are very good at. But recruiting is a full-time profession for a reason. Many times he has met brilliant founders who failed to understand what it takes to build a good team.

Co-author Tien Tzuo can confirm this from the founder’s perspective. He is formerly the Chief Strategy Officer of Salesforce. He came to Richard after founding Zuora – now a $1.7 billion company – 15 years ago because Zuora was growing fast but turnover was high. Tien realized that as his company grew, He Need to grow as a leader.

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After all these years, we’ve teamed up to give other business owners some practical, data-backed advice.

Here’s our 6-step guide to finding and attracting the talent that will take your business to the next level.

1, Recognize that you are not good at it.

Founders are generally bad at interviewing people. Some of them are stilted at best, and downright robotic at worst. Many people clearly telegraph what they’re looking for: “Okay, we need someone who will do this and this. You’re like that, right?” They forget that, in interviews, they are mainly there HearSometimes, candidates are unable to get even a word in edgewise,

Our advice? Stick to the facts and focus on understanding the candidate’s past behavior. Avoid vague hypothetical questions (“Let’s say you were in the following scenario…”). Interrogate lived experiences: Why did you do this project? Who did you work with? What was the actual versus expected outcome? What were the biggest obstacles? What was your organizational structure? How did you interact with your cross-functional colleagues? There are no right or wrong answers; You’re just trying to figure out how the person reacts. His character will reveal itself.

2. Develop a disciplined recruitment process.

Create a disciplined recruitment process that includes writing a job description, selecting candidates, interviewing, following up, and reaching a decision. Enrich it by soliciting and synthesizing feedback from multiple contexts: team members, board members, and shared contacts. Use data-driven recruiting tools like personality tests to improve fit and retention. It is human nature to hold on to similarities and shared experiences, but these similarities can often obscure competency gaps.

For example, TN Jobs is crazy about scorecards, so that interviews focus only on skills, knowledge and experience, not just whether you like someone or not. Their scorecards are derived from a detailed description of what the role involves: its context, its objectives, its challenges, its scope, and what you need the person to be able to accomplish. For important roles, he writes about half a dozen drafts: write, leave for a day, rewrite. And the best candidate? When they see their final scorecard, their eyes light up. They get excited. They can see themselves in the role. They see the future of their story and their development.

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3, Diversify the gene pool.

You need to reach beyond your network. This is where your investors and board members can contribute, especially for young founders. This essentially marks the difference between posting a classified ad (“Wanted: VP of Product”) and leveraging a range of experienced approaches to locate a specific suite of skills.

You may also consider hiring a recruitment firm. Be careful, however, as many of these are glorified temp companies. Look for a company that invests in understanding not only the specifics of the job but also the culture. They require a deep search to find what you need. Avoid those who are dialing just for dollars.

4, Hire for the team, not the position.

You can’t build a good basketball team with five all-star forwards. But founders hire in silos. They want the best sellers. Best Engineer. The best marketer. And they end up with a bunch of big egos who can’t work together.

At a certain point, you will need more experienced people. The biggest problem is that these employees have developed clear models of the “right way” to do things. If they have spent a long time at the same company, they may try to replicate previous formulas. They will likely be more balanced if they have worked at multiple companies at different stages of growth, and even better if they have experience in different industries or market segments.

Someone coming from a larger company presents a different kind of challenge. If they were around during the growth and expansion of their previous company, they can appreciate the lack of systems and processes in the startup. But if they join at a more advanced stage, they may have real difficulty adjusting to the informal, unstructured nature of a startup. They may tell themselves (and you) that they will enjoy the challenge, but the ambiguity and chaos leave them confused. They label it “stupid”. As a result, your early employees attack them as “big company” people and don’t benefit from their scaled-up models and processes.

Related: Why Proper Hiring Is the First Step to Team Success

5, Practice excessive back channeling.

Back channeling is incredibly important. If you can’t find information about someone through your network, contact people who used to work with them. Don’t ask vague questions like: Would you hire this person again? Or How was your experience with X? Pay attention to details: What specifically did this person do? How did they work with other people? What challenges did they face? What specific results did they produce? Just because they came from a successful company doesn’t mean they were in a role where they “made it.”

Why is this so important? Well, some people are very skilled interviewers. Marketers know how to tell a good story. Salespeople know how to pitch. Someone may dazzle during the entire process but be fundamentally unfit for the role. People who have worked with the candidate can tell you a lot. For example, you might get what Larry David calls a “non-recommendation recommendation,” in which an ex-coworker lightly praises the candidate. That’s always a red flag.

6, Ask yourself: ‘Am I buying or selling?’

Ultimately, interviews are not just about evaluating candidates. They’re also about selling your company: vision, market, funding, product, team. For experienced candidates, they have many options and they consider these basics very carefully. They want to kick the tires.

Here’s a simple way to think about it: When you’re buying, you’re listening – and when you’re selling, you’re talking. You need to switch gears at some point: “Do you have a question I can answer?” Now is your time to talk. Leverage your perspective to inspire someone. Let people know that their creativity is valued. This is extremely important if you want to attract people who can tolerate ambiguity and risk, as it will give them the flexibility to be innovative.

Ultimately, recruiting is both an art and a science, requiring vision, empathy, and analytical rigor. By recognizing your own limitations, leveraging outside expertise, and building a structured approach, you can create a workforce that not only drives results, but bonds together in spirit and collaboration. You can create a team of happy warriors.

Related: Leadership Practices That Dramatically Improve Employee Retention and Performance

This essay was quoted from Founders, KeepersCopyright © 2025 by Richard Hagberg, Tien Tzuo and Gabe Weisert. Reprinted with permission of Matt Holt Books, BenBella Books, Inc. An imprint of, all rights reserved.

If you think you’re good at hiring people, you’re probably wrong.

In this we have unusual insight. Co-author Richard Hagberg is a psychologist and executive management coach who has worked with thousands of clients, looked inside hundreds of businesses, and collected 40 years of data. Their experience has shown that recruiting is one of those subjects, like marketing or design, that many founders are confident they understand and are very good at. But recruiting is a full-time profession for a reason. Many times he has met brilliant founders who failed to understand what it takes to build a good team.

Co-author Tien Tzuo can confirm this from the founder’s perspective. He is formerly the Chief Strategy Officer of Salesforce. He came to Richard after founding Zuora – now a $1.7 billion company – 15 years ago because Zuora was growing fast but turnover was high. Tien realized that as his company grew, He Need to grow as a leader.